Gerald Burns: "Immigration, a movement of people
tied up in the law."
tied up in the law."
An experienced Arizona immigration attorney, talks about the controversy about the G-28 form, the
notarios, "activists", and the risks and consequences immigrants face when putting themselves on
their hands.
notarios, "activists", and the risks and consequences immigrants face when putting themselves on
their hands.
Interview and photos by Eduardo Barraza
Chandler, Arizona. April 16, 2007. "One of the things that people are always asking us is what’s going on
in Arizona with immigration law. I think the better question is what’s not going on in Arizona. Quite a lot
as a border state immigration is a hot button topic being debated from both sides of the issue furiously
on a daily basis. One of the things that is interesting, is that what’s going on in Arizona doesn’t seem to
be the sentiment maybe nationwide; it seems to be very mean spirited here in Arizona. From a
professional standpoint, probably the most serious issue in immigration is how local law enforcement
appears to be enforcing immigration laws. If you are an undocumented person or you are someone who
came legally but has maybe overstayed or you are here without authorization, routine traffic stops,
arrest, any exposure to law enforcement could mean that you would be placed in the deportation
proceedings.
"This didn’t used to be the case; there was always this strict separation of local law enforcement and
then federal immigration enforcement. If you are brought to the attention of law enforcement for any
reason, if you go to jail, if you have a conviction, chances are you will be detained by immigration officials.
If that happens, be prepared that you most likely not be jailed but will be transferred to immigration
custody and then you will have to fight for your rights before an immigration judge.
"Another issue that has popped recently is this controversy over the G-28 form. What is the form? The
form is very simply a confidentiality privacy form. For example, as an immigration attorney, if someone
comes in and hires my firm, hires me as their attorney, I have to be able to speak for them, I have to be
able to obtain information for them. So we have them sign a G-28 —and the immigration service requires
a G-28— so then I can be recognized as their attorney. Now, no legal rights attached just by having a
signed G-28. There is nothing that is going to protect you from deportation by simply adding a G-28 in
your back pockets signed by whoever.
"I think this is a very dangerous situation right now, because having someone sign a G-28, and if you are
stopped or become exposed to an immigration officials, you show them this; they know what that form
is, and they are going to know that you may be trying to —this person, the immigrant may not know it—
but they may be constricted to misrepresenting themselves, we have something before the immigration
service that they don’t really know. It should be clear that the G-28 is not a form of relief on deportation;
it is a confidentiality privacy form that prevents other people from getting information about your case
that is filed with the government. I would recommend people that if you hear of people offering G-28’s for
a fee, that’s a scam, and that will not help you if you come to the attention of an immigration official.
"This goes to show you that immigrants are always looking for something positive, always looking for
something that is going to be helpful. Immigrants seem to be living in a lot of fear, and there’s a lot of
miscommunication out there and immigrants are fairly desperate right now but they are always looking
for something positive and the G-28 is not going to be something positive.
"What we are seeing in terms of risks and consequences of people when they work with notarios (public
notaries) and people are always coming to us on a daily basis that have been involved with notarios that
have handled their cases before we have —and I say that literally, on a daily basis. Here in Arizona
notarios are a very big problem. First, notarios are not attorneys in Arizona; notarios are individuals who
have a notary public license. By State law, they are prohibited from accepting fees of more than two
dollars to witness a signature. So they are not notaries in the Spanish sense of being an attorney from a
Latin America country, where they are often called notarios. So here in the United States they are notary
publics, they witness signatures; they are not to be document preparers, in particular for immigration
purposes. In Arizona it is a felony to practice law without a license and particularly immigration law, so
notarios should understand that but also the community should understand that immigration is
considered to be one of the most complex and difficulties areas of law. The law, the regulations, the
memorandums, the policy advisories, the practice memos, these are things that trained attorneys and
educated attorneys have access to; immigration attorneys, not notarios. So we would encourage the
immigrant community to be careful about who you have represent you in the immigration process.
"Number one: be aware of the fact that being pulled over or any exposure to any local law enforcement
could place you in the deportation proceedings; that is the number one thing confronting immigrants
right now in Arizona. Number two: be aware of the fact that notarios are causing a lot of damage; they’re
not licensed attorneys; if you hire a notario to handle your case you can end in deportation procedures.
Even though you are an undocumented person or you may have overstayed your visa, you entered
legally, you do have rights, so if you are pulled over, or you are brought to the attention of immigration, it
is important to let them know who you are, but it is also your right to tell them that you wish to remain
silent. I don’t want to sign anything, I would like to see an attorney, I would like to go before a judge,
and you have that right. And I think most importantly for the immigrants in Arizona to be aware of the
fact that you are valuable, we understand how valuable you are, you have a voice. Whatever the mean
spirited things that are going on in Arizona cannot take that away. It is often said that immigrants built
America, well, immigrants now continue to build America; this is staying America, and that’s not going to
change.
in Arizona with immigration law. I think the better question is what’s not going on in Arizona. Quite a lot
as a border state immigration is a hot button topic being debated from both sides of the issue furiously
on a daily basis. One of the things that is interesting, is that what’s going on in Arizona doesn’t seem to
be the sentiment maybe nationwide; it seems to be very mean spirited here in Arizona. From a
professional standpoint, probably the most serious issue in immigration is how local law enforcement
appears to be enforcing immigration laws. If you are an undocumented person or you are someone who
came legally but has maybe overstayed or you are here without authorization, routine traffic stops,
arrest, any exposure to law enforcement could mean that you would be placed in the deportation
proceedings.
"This didn’t used to be the case; there was always this strict separation of local law enforcement and
then federal immigration enforcement. If you are brought to the attention of law enforcement for any
reason, if you go to jail, if you have a conviction, chances are you will be detained by immigration officials.
If that happens, be prepared that you most likely not be jailed but will be transferred to immigration
custody and then you will have to fight for your rights before an immigration judge.
"Another issue that has popped recently is this controversy over the G-28 form. What is the form? The
form is very simply a confidentiality privacy form. For example, as an immigration attorney, if someone
comes in and hires my firm, hires me as their attorney, I have to be able to speak for them, I have to be
able to obtain information for them. So we have them sign a G-28 —and the immigration service requires
a G-28— so then I can be recognized as their attorney. Now, no legal rights attached just by having a
signed G-28. There is nothing that is going to protect you from deportation by simply adding a G-28 in
your back pockets signed by whoever.
"I think this is a very dangerous situation right now, because having someone sign a G-28, and if you are
stopped or become exposed to an immigration officials, you show them this; they know what that form
is, and they are going to know that you may be trying to —this person, the immigrant may not know it—
but they may be constricted to misrepresenting themselves, we have something before the immigration
service that they don’t really know. It should be clear that the G-28 is not a form of relief on deportation;
it is a confidentiality privacy form that prevents other people from getting information about your case
that is filed with the government. I would recommend people that if you hear of people offering G-28’s for
a fee, that’s a scam, and that will not help you if you come to the attention of an immigration official.
"This goes to show you that immigrants are always looking for something positive, always looking for
something that is going to be helpful. Immigrants seem to be living in a lot of fear, and there’s a lot of
miscommunication out there and immigrants are fairly desperate right now but they are always looking
for something positive and the G-28 is not going to be something positive.
"What we are seeing in terms of risks and consequences of people when they work with notarios (public
notaries) and people are always coming to us on a daily basis that have been involved with notarios that
have handled their cases before we have —and I say that literally, on a daily basis. Here in Arizona
notarios are a very big problem. First, notarios are not attorneys in Arizona; notarios are individuals who
have a notary public license. By State law, they are prohibited from accepting fees of more than two
dollars to witness a signature. So they are not notaries in the Spanish sense of being an attorney from a
Latin America country, where they are often called notarios. So here in the United States they are notary
publics, they witness signatures; they are not to be document preparers, in particular for immigration
purposes. In Arizona it is a felony to practice law without a license and particularly immigration law, so
notarios should understand that but also the community should understand that immigration is
considered to be one of the most complex and difficulties areas of law. The law, the regulations, the
memorandums, the policy advisories, the practice memos, these are things that trained attorneys and
educated attorneys have access to; immigration attorneys, not notarios. So we would encourage the
immigrant community to be careful about who you have represent you in the immigration process.
"Number one: be aware of the fact that being pulled over or any exposure to any local law enforcement
could place you in the deportation proceedings; that is the number one thing confronting immigrants
right now in Arizona. Number two: be aware of the fact that notarios are causing a lot of damage; they’re
not licensed attorneys; if you hire a notario to handle your case you can end in deportation procedures.
Even though you are an undocumented person or you may have overstayed your visa, you entered
legally, you do have rights, so if you are pulled over, or you are brought to the attention of immigration, it
is important to let them know who you are, but it is also your right to tell them that you wish to remain
silent. I don’t want to sign anything, I would like to see an attorney, I would like to go before a judge,
and you have that right. And I think most importantly for the immigrants in Arizona to be aware of the
fact that you are valuable, we understand how valuable you are, you have a voice. Whatever the mean
spirited things that are going on in Arizona cannot take that away. It is often said that immigrants built
America, well, immigrants now continue to build America; this is staying America, and that’s not going to
change.
| ADVERTISEMENT |
"One of the things that strikes me about doing immigration —I’ve
been doing immigration for twelve years now. Immigration is a
social movement of people, it is migration, it is Mother Nature
moving people around the globe, and Latinos are migrating to the
United States from Mexico, South America, Central America and
they are coming this way. But what they don’t realize a lot of times
is that immigration is tied up in the law, it is a huge complex body
of laws and regulations that govern how people come to the
United States, how they can stay in the United States, what relief
they may have. Now, I can assure you that “activists”, people that
say they are “activists” —that is the scariest word in immigration
today— an activist today in immigration is not the same as when
Cesar Chavez was an activist who cared about the farm workers
back in the seventies and almost laid down his life for people; that
was an activist. Now we have “activists” who go on the radio for
thirty minutes and pretend to be immigration experts. It is
extremely (dangerous), it is not only demeaning to immigration
attorneys like myself, but it’s demeaning to you the immigrant
community. They are looking at you as if you are a commodity that
does not have a brain, that will pay anybody who is in the radio
for thirty minutes and pretends to know something about
immigration law and they will insult you by making you think that
immigration is simple, that immigration is just filling out forms.
"That is something that has to change within the culture of the
people, you have to demand that you should be respected more
than that. Another part of the problem is the media, the radio
stations, the TV stations, the magazines, “TV y Más”. All the little
things that advertise for notarios and activists and at the same
time there right next to you have an ad for an immigration notario
next to an ad for a woman selling beer; we have to change that,
that immigration is very serious and should be left for the serious
professionals. Immigrants need to value themselves more than
that. Someone just mentioned to me that if you are going to have
a baby you want to go to a doctor not to a midwife, not to
someone who says, just come down laid on the table and we’ll
take care of that. That’s the way they used to do it but now you
have the choice, you can go to a professional, and you can have a
baby safely. Immigrants are being socially, morally killed by these
been doing immigration for twelve years now. Immigration is a
social movement of people, it is migration, it is Mother Nature
moving people around the globe, and Latinos are migrating to the
United States from Mexico, South America, Central America and
they are coming this way. But what they don’t realize a lot of times
is that immigration is tied up in the law, it is a huge complex body
of laws and regulations that govern how people come to the
United States, how they can stay in the United States, what relief
they may have. Now, I can assure you that “activists”, people that
say they are “activists” —that is the scariest word in immigration
today— an activist today in immigration is not the same as when
Cesar Chavez was an activist who cared about the farm workers
back in the seventies and almost laid down his life for people; that
was an activist. Now we have “activists” who go on the radio for
thirty minutes and pretend to be immigration experts. It is
extremely (dangerous), it is not only demeaning to immigration
attorneys like myself, but it’s demeaning to you the immigrant
community. They are looking at you as if you are a commodity that
does not have a brain, that will pay anybody who is in the radio
for thirty minutes and pretends to know something about
immigration law and they will insult you by making you think that
immigration is simple, that immigration is just filling out forms.
"That is something that has to change within the culture of the
people, you have to demand that you should be respected more
than that. Another part of the problem is the media, the radio
stations, the TV stations, the magazines, “TV y Más”. All the little
things that advertise for notarios and activists and at the same
time there right next to you have an ad for an immigration notario
next to an ad for a woman selling beer; we have to change that,
that immigration is very serious and should be left for the serious
professionals. Immigrants need to value themselves more than
that. Someone just mentioned to me that if you are going to have
a baby you want to go to a doctor not to a midwife, not to
someone who says, just come down laid on the table and we’ll
take care of that. That’s the way they used to do it but now you
have the choice, you can go to a professional, and you can have a
baby safely. Immigrants are being socially, morally killed by these
notarios and these activists that don’t have their best interests at heart.
"People always ask me what’s so complicated about filling out some forms to apply for an immigration
benefit. Well, as an immigration attorney, I can tell you that filling out the forms is about this much of
what we do. What’s important to realize is that if you are applying for a benefit and you are filling out a
form every single answer has a legal consequence. For example, you fill your name out wrong, you
misspell your last name, or you don’t do your address correctly, you might not get your notice or your
interview; if you put a wrong answer down, that is the difference between success and failure, that’s
often the difference between being able to get your benefits and maybe being deported. Just bare in
mind when you hear people say that they are document preparers, to prepare a document is one
percent of what immigration law is about. Anybody can fill a document; that’s not what we charge people
for. It’s the representation, it’s the deal with the legal consequences of your answers on forms, your
history, your immigration history, your eligibility, the obstacles, your relief, you need a waiver; these are
the things that notarios and activists, all those people, will not understand.
"Aside from being an attorney, that’s not enough. In my personal view I think the thing that’s most
important, immigration is always changing, the laws are always changing, the regulations are changing,
policy memorandums is always coming out that explain the vastly confusing areas of immigration law. A
good immigration attorney is going to be specifically trained in the area of immigration law. One of the
factors you might want to look for is —I tell immigrants— you should ask questions of the people that you
go see. I love it when people ask are you a member of the American Immigration Lawyers Association.
Being a member of that organization gives me access to the most recent documentation, changes in the
law, what’s going on with immigration, it gives me resources I can use that will better help me help
immigrants. If you are going to be an advocate for immigrants you at least owe to them to be informed
about what’s going on a daily basis with immigration law.
"For example, just to become an attorney you have to take an average of three years of law school, you
have to graduate from law school, you have to study and pass a Bar exam so that you have your law
license. You are required to take classes yearly to have continuing legal education credits so you can
maintain your law license. I have people who say to me “I am Mexican, I know the experience; I know
what it takes to help people with immigration.” That’s illogical, it is insulting, but is not insulting to me as
an immigration attorney; it is to the immigrants that you are worthy that little to them, that they believe
that they can help you.
"I take my job very seriously; we want be on the cutting edge of what’s new, what’s going on in my field,
and I can assure the immigrant community that notarios and activists will simply not be able to do that.
And I want to close by saying that in some ways, notarios and activists are my best friends, and to my
office, because we get referrals from them on a daily basis —not from them— but from the people that
they hurt. I have drawers of cases that started out with notarios and they ended with us because they
need their cases fixed. So it’s its not fair for immigrants to have to go through that much pain, that one
day they might be able to get their cases fixed, and a lot of time the damages are irreversible, and they
are not going to get their cases fixed."
"People always ask me what’s so complicated about filling out some forms to apply for an immigration
benefit. Well, as an immigration attorney, I can tell you that filling out the forms is about this much of
what we do. What’s important to realize is that if you are applying for a benefit and you are filling out a
form every single answer has a legal consequence. For example, you fill your name out wrong, you
misspell your last name, or you don’t do your address correctly, you might not get your notice or your
interview; if you put a wrong answer down, that is the difference between success and failure, that’s
often the difference between being able to get your benefits and maybe being deported. Just bare in
mind when you hear people say that they are document preparers, to prepare a document is one
percent of what immigration law is about. Anybody can fill a document; that’s not what we charge people
for. It’s the representation, it’s the deal with the legal consequences of your answers on forms, your
history, your immigration history, your eligibility, the obstacles, your relief, you need a waiver; these are
the things that notarios and activists, all those people, will not understand.
"Aside from being an attorney, that’s not enough. In my personal view I think the thing that’s most
important, immigration is always changing, the laws are always changing, the regulations are changing,
policy memorandums is always coming out that explain the vastly confusing areas of immigration law. A
good immigration attorney is going to be specifically trained in the area of immigration law. One of the
factors you might want to look for is —I tell immigrants— you should ask questions of the people that you
go see. I love it when people ask are you a member of the American Immigration Lawyers Association.
Being a member of that organization gives me access to the most recent documentation, changes in the
law, what’s going on with immigration, it gives me resources I can use that will better help me help
immigrants. If you are going to be an advocate for immigrants you at least owe to them to be informed
about what’s going on a daily basis with immigration law.
"For example, just to become an attorney you have to take an average of three years of law school, you
have to graduate from law school, you have to study and pass a Bar exam so that you have your law
license. You are required to take classes yearly to have continuing legal education credits so you can
maintain your law license. I have people who say to me “I am Mexican, I know the experience; I know
what it takes to help people with immigration.” That’s illogical, it is insulting, but is not insulting to me as
an immigration attorney; it is to the immigrants that you are worthy that little to them, that they believe
that they can help you.
"I take my job very seriously; we want be on the cutting edge of what’s new, what’s going on in my field,
and I can assure the immigrant community that notarios and activists will simply not be able to do that.
And I want to close by saying that in some ways, notarios and activists are my best friends, and to my
office, because we get referrals from them on a daily basis —not from them— but from the people that
they hurt. I have drawers of cases that started out with notarios and they ended with us because they
need their cases fixed. So it’s its not fair for immigrants to have to go through that much pain, that one
day they might be able to get their cases fixed, and a lot of time the damages are irreversible, and they
are not going to get their cases fixed."
Published by the Hispanic Institute of Social Issues in Phoenix, Arizona
|
| HISTORY IS ABOUT TO CHANGE Grassroots Journalism |
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ATTORNEY Gerald Burns
Photos by Eduardo Barraza | Barriozona
Photos by Eduardo Barraza | Barriozona
Eduardo Barraza is a journalist and writer,
Barriozona Magazine's editor, and director of
the Hispanic Insitute of Social Issues.
E-mail: editor@barriozona.com
Barriozona Magazine's editor, and director of
the Hispanic Insitute of Social Issues.
E-mail: editor@barriozona.com
